Great Job Linking![]
First things first … I would like to say "GREAT JOB!" on including a link to an outside reference related to the subject. That's one of the greatest functions of a wiki, telling people where they can find more information on the topic they're researching.
I want to touch on a related topic, though. … the "Greyparticle" wiki hosted at Canonfire.com is not able to be edited (except by a handful of members with special accounts) because it has been attacked by spammers for years. The owner and host of it (as well as LGG author), Gary Holian, and I are friends and worked together when he was updating the software of Canonfire in order to make the website and wiki more stable. Fortunately, Gary was able to make the wiki functional and exportable in the brief period before spam attacks began again on his newer "Greyparticle" version of it. Unfortunately, since Dec 5, 2018 there hasn't been able to be substantive updates, and the only "Recent Activity" is hundreds of spam accounts made and thousands of spam advertisement pages added (most of which have been removed now). Gary is a good friend of mine, and I use Canonfire! consistently. But, sadly, the wiki hosted there is questionable, at best, for our users to be linked to.
Thankfully, the page linked in this article is one which was imported from the Greyparticle version of the wiki when Gary and I first discussed transporting the wiki, and also is available on the Greyhawkonline version of the wiki. When it's possible, I think it would be a "best practices" if we link to GHO rather than the CF! version. Especially since it is no longer a living document, and Gary isn't updating it anymore. There's nothing wrong with Canonfire! itself, and I don't see any problems with linking to the main domain and forums.
For sake of information, I am one of the few members with privileges on CF! to be able to manage and edit the wiki, if anything ever is needed to be done there.
--IcarusATB (talk) 14:14, June 12, 2019 (UTC)
Considering all of the recent work on the language pages, I would like to point out a couple of things I think we ought to consider.
Languages Specific to Greyhawk[]
I think we need to be careful in how many languages we start listing.
The majority of them seem to be trending toward inclusiveness of all languages. I think we should take time to evaluate whether many of these languages are Greyhawk languages, or whether they're D&D languages. Where there are important differences in Greyhawk from the Monster Manuals, or other sourcebooks, it should absolutely be noted. But, I don't feel as though such a comprehensive list - while laudable and a great resource - is really within the scope of the Greyhawk Wiki.
- I actually agree, and I was the one compiling them. I wanted to get all the information down to see what to do with it first. I think any creature that is Greyhawk Specific (Included in the MC5- Monstrous Compendium Greyhawk Appendix or Greyhawk Adventures for example) might be worth keeping or perhaps notable humanoids such as Orcs, Gnolls, Goblins and such. I wasn't actually expecting there to be so many when I started. Mozzeltoff (talk) 16:35, June 11, 2019 (UTC)
Citation and Syntax[]
I can't help but be curious if this information is being compiled from somewhere. Is it our own research, or is it coming from another wiki or other source? If so, we need to cite the source of the collected data, and not just the sourcebook the language is mentioned in.
Also, for those languages that have their own pages, I think it could simply be listed in a separate heading under the human group that speaks (or originated) it. For example, there's not so much information on the Flan (language) that it really needs a separate page apart from Flan (ethnicity). Distinguishing pages with parenthetical marks in the titles isn't typically the best form for syntax and links, if nothing else.
IcarusATB (talk) 16:27, June 11, 2019 (UTC)
Other than what was on the page before I started editting, all this information is self gathered, as I went over my books skimming for any mention of 'Language', 'Tongues' or 'Speaks' so on.
As for syntax and style, I was wondering about that as well. Currently I've just worked on getting information down, but layout and purpose needs to be decided. Some languages, such as Old Oeridian, Ancient Baklunish and Sueloise have perhaps enough to have their own page, but I still don't see the need for them to do so. All this information can easily be moved now it is collected and cited, so the question is what we want to do with this page. Most of these languages can, as you said, be a subsection to the relevant race, but I wonder if we'll have difficulty with regional dialects- do we repeat the information of each dialect for each relevant region, or just link to this page? This is more an issue with the human dialects, as the racial ones (Lendorian Elvish) are easy enough to have on either the Elf page or the Lendore Isle page. I feel all the (Languages) pages or the ones listed in the Language Catergory can be deleted or used as redirects if neccessary. The Racial languages could be listed, but perhaps the majority of the info should be on each of their race pages. Publication history (when fixed up, I need to work on it) might be worth keeping, noting when each language was introduced or expanded. As for human languages we need to decided if we want the majority of their info on this page, so we can link from ethnicity and region pages, or if we want to keep the information streamlined on this page and link to relevant region/ethnicty pages for the main source of information. I admit I'm leaning slightly more towards the former, as I imagine region pages might become awkward if having to link to an ethnicity page for information on language that is more tied to a region and vice versa- it might be easier for both to be able to link to this page. Mozzeltoff (talk) 17:00, June 11, 2019 (UTC)
- Personally, I lean toward the former, as well. There's enough information on human languages that we could have a section of this page devoted to them. Remember, we can always link to a section of a page, as well, so, if we parsed it as something like: [[Languages#human|Human Languages and Dialects]] we wouldn't have to worry about linking to a huge article, the link would go right to the appropriate portion of it.
Are any of these Earth language based? If so, it needs to be mentioned. Gringo300 (talk) 08:05, February 27, 2018 (UTC)
There's so little actual examples of the languages that it's hard to say. I've tried examining Fruz/The Cold Tongue but I can't say it's actually based on any one real life language. The different Ethnicities were partially based on real life cultures according to some of Gygax's notes, but those have blurred a little throughout the editions Mozzeltoff (talk) 17:00, June 11, 2019 (UTC)